Jordan Yost sits down with Luke Betzler of Metal Made Podcast and discusses everything from how Precision Tube Laser started to where we see the company going. Jordan describes the core values of the company and his business philosophies that have lead to success in the fabrication industry.
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Full Transcript:
Luke: What's happening, everyone? Welcome to the Metal Made Podcast. I'm your host, Luke Betzler, and this is episode number five. Our guest today is Mr. Jordan Yost of Precision Tube Manufacturing. Located in Las Vegas, Nevada, Precision Tube has quickly become one of the most recognizable companies in fabrication. Jordan gives us insight into what inspired him to start his company by identifying the underexposed technology in tube laser processing. He also discusses the philosophy he uses to make key decisions that affect both his team and their customers. So big thanks for listening. Big thank you to Jordan and his team over at Precision Tube. Let's get rolling. Awesome, Jordan, thanks for doing this, man.Â
Jordan: Yeah, of course. Appreciate it. Thanks for taking time out of your guys' busy day to have us over and be here to record.
Luke:Â So Precision Tube has come at things from a very different angle. Your approach has been new, I think, in the industry, at least from what I've seen. Really excited to talk about what you guys are doing now and all the technology side of it. But if you're cool with it, before that, I'd like to get an idea of where you came from and what your backstory is and where you grew up
Jordan: Sure, yeah. Born and raised here in Las Vegas, Nevada, and this is our hometown. And when we started, the conception of the company started back in 2016. That's when we started thinking we were gonna start going this route. We actually opened our doors in 2018. So we just turned six in March of this year. So that's kind of the backstory on the company when that started. As far from me, I didn't come from a manufacturing background or metalworking or anything like that. I was always fascinated by welding, always fascinated by fabrication, had a lot of friends that did it. But I was never directly involved. I was always running other types of businesses. So before I got into this, I had three rental car companies on the strip, and that's what I did for 10 years. So that's pretty much as far removed from the manufacturing side as you could be from a business sense. And then two years, so back in 2016, I sold my rental car companies. And when I did that, I went to work for a small job shop here in Vegas that was owned by a couple of my friends. And at that time, really small business. They had a small powder coating operation, but a lot of manual processes, mills, drills, tiny little model laser, little four by four, built in the 80s. I mean, this thing was running on its last leg all the time. And I came in and I got an opportunity to see it firsthand, what was going on with these shops and how they were working. And I discovered really quickly that there's a lot of shops that are in the same situation. And whether they had the money to buy big equipment or not, or they didn't have room to put it anywhere, there wasn't really companies that were out there trying to help them. They weren't being proactive in trying to make sure that these companies survived and these companies got what they needed. that's where I started thinking, what if there was a company that was really tailored to not only help the enthusiast, but help these other small businesses grow by giving them high quality laser cut parts and making it as easy as possible. So that's kind of my background and backstory as to how I kind of got into this. So to say I didn't have any experience is not necessarily 100% true, but I didn't come from this. We're not a long lineage of metal workers and we're not third generation Precision Tube Laser. This all just started on a whim from watching other shops and watching other things, other companies struggle to kind of find their way in this industry.Â
Luke: Yeah, so what got you to go from, so you have three rental car facilities off the strip.
Jordan:Â It sounds crazy even just hearing you say it.Â
Luke: Yeah, it's super crazy. Before when you told me that, I went, wow, that was not what I expected at all. So you sold that and what was the connection? So you had buddies that had a shop.Â
Jordan:Â Yep.Â
Luke: And you just, what was, something interested you to go over there and say, there's something here that I like, or you already had in your mind, I think this is a business I could take what other people are doing and do it a different way. What brought you over that route?Â
Jordan: Yeah, so my relationship with those guys, while we were doing the rental car stuff, I drove race cars professionally for 15 years and we built a lot of our own these were guys that I relied on, from time to time to help us, whether we needed some small brackets or you needed some powder coating done or whatever, not only did I know them as childhood friends, but I started to kind of watch their process. And what I realized about these guys is that they're two of the most talented people that I've ever met from the fabrication side, but they're not great business people. And together, they're even worse.Â
Luke:Â Got it.Â
Jordan: So they were struggling from the business side, and it really wasn't a place where they needed to be. They needed to be in the shop. That's where they thrive. That's where they really can do what they do best. So they were really looking for somebody to come in and try to transform their business and kind of take over that side and look at it from a different perspective than they looked at it and try to find a way to get them moving down the road in a positive way versus just the same old, we take a job on Monday, we wait three or four days to start it, and then by Friday, we're struggling to get it done when it should just be done in a day and out the door and then onto the next thing and trying to find ways to create opportunity. So yeah, that's kind of my backstory with those guys. So I did know them ahead of time. It wasn't like I just walked in, I was looking for a job because I definitely wasn't at the time.
Luke: I mean, you sold your business and then stepped into it. But okay, so there's a connection with the racing.Â
Jordan:Â Yes.Â
Luke: Because that obviously within this world is a big, if it's not something people are into, then as a hobby, a lot of times shops are doing work for guys that are into it. And so what were you racing?Â
Jordan: So we were primarily sports cars. So we were taking brand new BMWs, stripping them down and rebuilding them. So before manufacturers were producing lower level GT4 cars or GT2 cars, there was nobody really building them or you had to build them. And that's the way we were doing it. We were like right on the cusp of building our own custom GT4 car. And then a year or two years later, the factory finally released one. And of course they're astronomically expensive, not as much as their GT3 cars that are going for six, 700,000, but they're still in that quarter million dollar range. And we were kind of on the forefront of building cars to that point without the factory's help, basically. So we were doing all endurance racing, three, six, 12, 25 hour races. That's where we spent our time. So we were building bulletproof chassis that could run that long at that pace as enthusiasts. So it took a lot of really talented guys to think and problem solve and build a safe car, knowing that we're gonna be driving through the night and all those things. But yeah, that's where I started to wrap my head around the fabrication side, because I watched how these guys worked through the processes, what they had to do, all the stuff they were making by hand, which was crazy. That is crazy.Â
Luke:Â But a lot of shops are still doing it today.Â
Jordan:Â There are. And that's where I really looked at the opportunity of just what if? What if somebody could make it easy? And at the time when we started Precision Tube Laser, we're looking at only offering tube laser, which is the most underrepresented and most unknown service at the time. So we were really starting from the worst end of the industry side as far as the amount of exposure. But the reason why I chose the tubing side was that's a majority of what these guys were processing.So I was watching them handle tubing all the time.Â
Luke:Â The shop that you went to help out at?Â
Jordan: Yeah, and so the amount of waste, the amount of time, all the steps that were involved in making tube frames for trade show booths, and all that stuff. I mean, it was a monumental feat that five or six guys were doing by hand every day.Â
Luke: So they weren't outsourcing that to any other tube cutting service? It was just all by hand?Â
Jordan:Â So we had a couple experiences with another tube laser company.
Luke:Â You don't have to say that.Â
Jordan: Yeah. It was not a great experience, nicely put. And mainly because it was an engineered structure. And we asked for samples, we asked for samples, we got samples, they were incorrect. We kept telling them that they were incorrect. And then one day we just get a pallet of parts that shows up. And we're like, what is this? And they're like, well, this is your assembly. We're like, we never said cut this ever. So we had to not only accept it, but we had to push it all back through engineering again, because everything was one inch shorter than what it was supposed to be. So it caused a lot of problems. But I'm so thankful that we had those experiences because it let me see how difficult it really was at that time. Sure. And even though that was eight years ago now, there's a lot more companies that have come in to try to solve that issue. But back then it was really difficult.
Luke:Â There were only a handful of companies doing it.Â
Jordan:Â Yeah, there's only a few that I could think of at that time.Â
Luke:Â And you guys seeing maybe a chink in the industry. Everybody that talks about Tube now brings you guys up. So it's something you came in and saw weakness and we could fill that gap. And it's been a huge, I mean, everyone knows who you guys are. There's only a handful of shops in the country where everyone knows who they are and you guys are, that I go to. You guys are for sure one of them.Â
Jordan: Which is probably one of the most bizarre things about being in this business. You know, when we, we're just regular people that cut metal, man. I'm just, I'm a guy that puts on a t-shirt. You walked by me in the shop just a minute ago. You didn't even know that I was standing there because I looked like another guy. But the, you know, it's just, I never, you know, when we started this company, you know, I never thought we would be a globally recognized brand. You know, it's not why we started it. We didn't start it in the sense of, oh, we want to be the most popular brand. We want to be the most known. We just wanted to provide a service. And at the time that we launched the company, you know, social media wasn't representing anything from the tube laser side. And that's where, you know, knowing, I had some experience with the race team. We grew our race team through social media, and that's where we got a lot of our partnerships and our sponsors. So I had already had some experience in that department, but when I was looking at the tube laser content, it was next to none. And I'm going, I don't understand this. I don't know why there's not more people showing this process, you know, and what is possible and what we're capable of doing. And so I really felt like we had an edge there if we could package it right and help people understand what is actually going on, because for the most part, people were seeing it for the first time and seeing it at that speed, you know? And that was one of the funny things that we got accused of all the time back early in our career was speeding up the videos. Yeah, and it's like, I don't have time to do that. This is really how fast these machines are. It's an easy thing to say. They've exported the videos and they're cutting faster. Yeah, it's really easy to make that statement. Yeah, so, you know, it is interesting to have a brand that people know so well. You know, we've always tried to represent ourself in a manner that, you know, we know we wear a, you know, a hat of industry experts, you know, and people really do rely on us for information, whether it's about laser tube cutting, whether it's about machines, whether it's about processing. And, you know, we try to uphold that the best we can. We try to be responsive. We try to be involved in conversations with people, you know, and I tell my crew all the time, you know, just as much as cutting material is our business, educating is our business. And the more that people can understand about this process and what it takes and what's manufacturable and what's not, the stronger I think the industry gets. And for me, it's, you know, that's something that I really truly believe in and I wanna bring this industry up with its knowledge base and its awareness of what technologies are out there.Â
Luke: Yeah, it shows. I mean, everything you guys do and you post about and the cool projects you guys do, the podcasts you do, it shows. And it's important for the industry because if this stuff doesn't get exposed, like you said, it wasn't before you guys came along, it's easy for it to go into the wayside. And compared to racing, people are gonna see race cars on social media all day long. To go from zero exposure on tube laser cutting to what you guys are doing on social media is a very different thing. How difficult was it to start gaining a following for you guys with tube laser cutting? Because with your race team, I'm sure if you post some cool pictures with race cars and cool videos, I would imagine, not that it's easy, but you're gonna, there's a lot more regular interest in that.
Jordan:Â Sure. Why would people be interested in tube cutting and things like that? Yeah, it took a while to, I wouldn't say a while, but it took a few months to kind of take off for us. When we started, we had no customers, we had no contracts, we had nothing to show for. We just started a company, bought a tube laser, and started to figure it out. So for me to get people in the door, the only way that I could do that was show them that we have this amazing piece of technology. It's accessible by you, you can get a hold of us and we will cut your parts. But also, I didn't know anything about it. I had to learn. So I spent the first six months, about 12 hours a day, every single day, coming to the shop, designing parts, cutting parts, filming parts, and repeating that process over and over and over again. One, to build my understanding of what was possible, but also to start documenting things like, what can you do and how do you do it? And that was the only way I knew how to learn, because I didn't have anybody to learn from. I couldn't pick up the phone and say, hey, I have this problem, or I'm trying to cut this part, what do you do? I didn't know where to start.Â
Luke:Â So before you guys, let me back up. So when you started Precision Tube Laser, you hadn't had any one-on-one experience with a tube laser yourself?Â
Jordan:Â No, I never ran one, never operated one.Â
Luke:Â That's wild.Â
Jordan: I did about two years of research, mainly about the industry and the equipment at the time. There's something spark, and you went, hey, there's something here, which is the most important thing, for sure. Absolutely, and I followed that path. And for me, when I started researching the machines, at that time, there was really only two companies that offered tube laser machines at that time.Â
Luke:Â So you didn't have a huge arena to play in, right?Â
Jordan: It was very limited at that time. So education on that side was pretty easy, but there just wasn't enough of them in the hands of the public. We're not talking about private companies, because John Deere's had them forever, GM's had them forever.Â
Luke:Â That's a good point, yeah. But there was nobody you could access, and just be like, hey, Steve, can you help me here?Â
Jordan:Â So yeah, all of my learning is almost 100% self-taught. There were some people along the way that nudged you in the right direction, but very, very minimal in comparison to what I went through to try to learn that technology. That's a lot to dive into. It was scary.Â
Luke:Â Yeah, I bet, yeah, I bet it was.Â
Jordan: I can't say it's one of the most difficult things that I've ever done, but it's definitely one of the, the farthest thing you could think of, how difficult do you wanna make it? Let's just pick a machine that's crazy and try to figure it out on the fly as you're also trying to cut customer parts. Well, most people that start a fabrication shop start with something to cut flat plate or sheet, so laser, plasma, whatever, and then they usually get a press break. They've got welding equipment. It's never, I mean, even now it's difficult, but it's never get a tube laser first. It didn't used to be. So that's what I think of with you guys is, oh, they, again, total flank on let's do this different. Let's get the last piece of equipment most people buy first.Â
Luke: Yeah. That kind of shows a pattern of maybe similar to selling your car rental places and getting into fabrication. Okay, wait a minute, there's a different way to approach things, which is super cool. I know, it makes it interesting, and obviously if you find a weakness to fill in, then tube cutting or whatever it might be, that's the right approach.Â
Jordan: Yeah, and for us, again, I'm thankful that we went the path that we did because everything from that point on seemed to be a lot easier. And in theory, it should be, right? Because instead of going from a 2D surface and then folding it into 3D and then learning how to cut 3D, we went backwards through the process. And when we started the company, my goal was never to be involved in 2D cutting or press break forming or any of that stuff.Â
Luke:Â Oh, really? Just tube?Â
Jordan:Â Yeah, tube specific.Â
Luke:Â Okay.Â
Jordan: But the problem was is that we were turning tubing so fast for companies that had the ability to cut their own flat and do their own press break work that we became a nuisance. They would have piles and piles of tubes sitting waiting for flat parts that they can't get off their machine for five weeks. So then they're calling us saying, well, if you can't provide me everything, then what's the point, right?
 Luke: Can you slow down?Â
Jordan: Yeah, exactly, you know? So, which is a weird concept even back then, even more now, you know, because everybody wants everything yesterday. But yeah, it was an interesting thing to go through, you know, but it allowed us to start to develop, you know, certain processes internally that slowed us down, the checks and balances, you know, all the things that we need to do because when you press play on these machines, they'll just start ripping tube. And next thing you know, you got somebody who's calling you saying, hey, I need to add a hole to that. And you're like, okay, but what do I do with the hundred that I've already cut in the last 15 minutes?Â
Luke:Â Right.Â
Jordan: You know, it just, we, you know, we had to learn the way that the industry worked as well. And that took a little bit of time. So, you know, yeah, again, I'm very thankful that we started with the tube laser, but yeah, our back was against the wall. It was one of the most difficult things you could start with in this industry. And again, we had no contracts. It wasn't like we were walking in going, oh, you know, my uncle owns a fencing company and we're going to cut all his fence, you know, and then we'll figure it out from there. We had nothing.Â
Luke: So most difficult machine, probably in fabrication, no existing contracts or customers. Where did, and you're looking at it though with a different perspective of let's grow this thing through social media. So I guess what was your first kind of win going forward? Or was it all, we talked about this, I think the last time I was here, you don't do a ton of local service, right? It's primarily outside of Vegas. So what, where did you guys go from, you're spending an incredible amount of time learning the machine, it's installed, you're building on social media, cutting your own stuff probably in the beginning and designing your own stuff. Where did it go from there?Â
Jordan: So one of the strategies that we used early in our career was we were really having a hard time getting to purchasers of companies. Like we weren't calling, but we weren't getting a lot of response. We weren't getting a lot of interest from these companies that should absolutely be using our services. And so we had to kind of shift our mentality a little bit. And I started thinking about the fabrication shop and I'm going, well, who's the guy that has the most say outside of somebody who has the purchasing power? Well, it's your welder. Your welder is one of your most expensive guys. He's one of the guys that you really rely on for information in a shop because he's so high priced and he's putting together the product, right? So you're going to hear all the complaints, not going to hear a lot of positive things typically, but you're going to hear all the complaints when something's a half inch too long or an inch too short because the guy at the saw is not paying attention or the holes are backwards or whatever. So we started the weldable kits early in our career and we went with the strategy of, well, if I can't get to the purchasers, let's get to your most expensive guy. Let's build these cool kits that either people can practice on or they can make something cool for their wife or their girlfriend or their dad or whatever, and they can have some repetition to it. And it can really be a cool, fun thing, even for an expert welder, can really have a good time with it. So we started developing these kits and my mentality was, let's just try to get as much laser cut tubing material in people's hands as possible. Because I think once they see it, they feel it, they weld it, they put it together, it's going to click. It's going to get to the point where somebody goes, why aren't we doing this? It doesn't make sense that we're still using a saw. And so we started this weldable kit. We started it in, I believe, July of 2019, or no, sorry, 2018. And by October, we had sold over $100,000 worth of kits.Â
Luke:Â No kidding.Â
Jordan:Â Yeah, I mean, we were selling hundreds a day.Â
Luke:Â What was it?Â
Jordan:Â So we built steel kits and aluminum kits, stainless kits, a lot of geometric patterns, a lot of things that use slot and tab. Like it goes together in a way that really you don't even need to weld it. Everything was mechanically locked and you could just leave it the way that it was and not weld it. But that was also the idea behind it. You could buy something where, hey, I'm going to start welding on this side and if it doesn't go well, I can flip it over and I have all those same joints again. So it was based on repetition, having a cool project, whether it was a desktop piece or a larger piece. We made wall art, we made all sorts of stuff just to try to lure and entice people to just want to experience it. And once we launched that, probably two or three months into that, we started to see sales come in, and where you would start asking, like, how'd you hear about us? Well, my welder bought one of your kits and I was walking by one day and I said, what is that? And he goes, why aren't we doing this? Look at how easy this is to put together. Look at the fit, look at the finish. Like we're doing it an old fashioned way and there's a new company that we can call right now and get this stuff. And that's kind of how we started getting the ball rolling with legitimate customers outside of our weldable kit business.Â
Luke: That all kind of falls in line with everything else you've talked about because that's such a backdoor way of getting in. Letting the guys inside do the talking for you when it's real, when it's real. That seems also like a cool way to, if you were to train somebody in a welding world, maybe it's a separate thing, but here's a kit that you could weld and play with and it's fun. But, so when you designed those, was that you designing those too?Â
Jordan:Â Yeah, yeah.Â
Luke:Â So that again, just using- That's crazy, man. to go from-.Â
Jordan:Â Yeah.Â
Luke:Â All right.Â
Jordan:Â You know never never in my wildest dreams. Would I ever associate my name with being an artist? Yeah, cuz I can't draw for shit. Like I I have terrible penmanship. I can't I can't draw a square box, you know but you know to get to get in front of a computer and think about things and engineer things and Know that they're going to work You know, it's such a it's such a skill yeah, and it's it's pushing the limits, you know of going. I don't know if this is gonna work, but I'm gonna try it and you know, that's what that's what really moved us forward In the education side about this, you know, we would see stuff come across our desk and go Yeah, we can do that because that's just like what this weldable kit we just made You know at the time when we when we first started one of our one of our very first customers All they wanted was tubing cut directly in half So two halves right round tubing cut it in half they were using it to sleeve around another another object, but they would order hundreds of these things and Nobody really knew how to do it in a way that made sense that you could actually do it and it not come apart In the machine, it seems simple, but it's not yeah, it's very difficult to flay Yeah, the amount of the amount of heat you put into it. It's gonna warp. It's gonna want to twist It's gonna want to you know, just move on you And so we spent a lot of time perfecting that skill And so that that was a majority of our first handful of jobs was just splitting tubing in half for a customer Yeah, I mean it again. It sounds simple and it's it's funny because we rarely do it now But back then we did it all the time it was a very very common thing to do and I think once People always needed that at some point, but they just didn't know how to do it. So I'm gonna ask sometimes. Yeah So, yeah, I mean just you know, it's funny because I haven't even thought about that customer I don't even know why it popped into my brain there but I have a thought about that customer in years because they don't they're they're not doing business with us anymore, but Yeah, that was such an odd thing to be like one of our first Jobs, you know Was just splitting tubing in half and you're just like how are we gonna do this?Â
Luke:Â This doesn't this is not an easy thing to do.Â
Jordan: Yeah, we did it all the timeÂ
Luke: So when there a special technique that you developed or was it something just on the machine that that you were able to figure out?Â
Jordan: Yeah, it was you know, it was understanding, you know, obviously on a tube laser You've got to be able to to cut the object without the material coming apart, right? that's the worst thing that can happen in a tube laser is the end products start to Remove itself from the from the material you're cutting it from so using the right micro joints the right cutting gases How fast you're moving how slow you're moving? You know, we did a lot of research on that a lot of testing, you know Because at the end of the day when that thing rolls off You also don't want it to be something that you would have to then cut apart right defeats the purpose So you need to be able to just grab it Drop it on the ground and have it separate so those right.Â
Luke: Oh, yeah.Â
Jordan:Â Yeah, it was a it was a wild. Well, we'll take a trip down memory lane, yeah, yeah, it's not my favorite thing to do but Yeah Yeah, that was a bizarre. That was a bizarre job, but we did it a lot back then and like I said it's funny because maybe Maybe a handful of times now each year some somebody will ask us to do that, but not like it used to beÂ
Luke: So You go from having one tube. This was wasn't in this building, right? Correct?Â
Jordan:Â Yeah, so we started in a in about 5,600 square feet completely different building we started with the tube laser, but had enough room to kind of grow so a Lot of my philosophy with business is is really trying to limit your exposure in the sense of when you're when you're getting into a new technology or you want something a new piece of equipment Maybe don't buy the biggest one They have right and at the time the tube laser falls into that because we bought a 5,000 not a 7,000 You know, we bought our flat machine. We bought a 1040 which is a pretty standard machine for Trumpf But it wasn't until we got to the press break where that really started to fall in line And so all three of those machines ended up in that original building so we bought our 5,000about a year and a half after that we bought our flat laser or 1040 and We bought the small 7036 press break at that time. Yes, really small, you know electric drive You know high-speed, but we weren't familiar with press break work. That was probably where we were the most uncomfortable. So instead of having a 10-foot press break, that's you know, got 200 metric tons of press force. Let's just bring it down a little bit, right? Let's learn the skill. Let's learn how this process works before we Then go to the next step and that's kind of how we've always tried to try to take that approach And again, I I love it because when you're limited like that, yeah, I can't bend a five-foot part It doesn't fit in the machine. Yeah, but anything within three feet or 40 inches roughly Yeah, let's go for it. Right if we've got enough press force if the software says we can do it Let's let's go for it. Let's try it and so we we stayed limited that way for a couple years before we bought our larger press break and I ended up moving into this building, but yeah, that's that's just a philosophy that that I Really like the approach of it, you know the Not coming from the metal industry I don't have anything to really lean on, you know So all of my experience and all of our experience here is going to come from real-time situations I didn't have a lot of people to lean on So keeping yourself limited keeping your exposure limited mistakes are going to happen But at least it's on a three-foot part not a 10-foot part. You know trying to keep the cost down to While you're learning that process because you got to bend a lot of stuff You got to try a lot of things you got to cut a lot of material To to get to the point where you are comfortable with that process And so that's something that we've always just kind of taken, you know with this with this business is maybe sometimes, you know Yeah, I want the bigger piece of equipment, but we're not ready for it You know Let's take our time and work up to that earn it earn the right to be able to bend a 10-foot partÂ
Luke:Â That's a good way to look at you know, if you work with certain constraints that you've given yourself It seems like it helps you kind of you're not crawling because you're still getting highend nice equipment So you're you're stepping in and you're exposing yourself, but not overly
Jordan:Â Yeah, and just yeah, just you know taking the approach of you know, again, just that that limitation I don't think limitations are a bad thing. Sometimes, you know, even with the tube laser. We only had one machine It wasn't like we brought in three machines in one shot and then I've got to learn three different technologies, you know at once It's just one at a time and when we're ready for it and we've earned it and we feel like we're in a good mental Capacity to take on a new technology Then we'll move in that direction and you know that that's just the way we've always kind of navigated this business You know not only listening to listening to our customers and what they're asking for because we want to make sure we buy the right piece of equipment. But then at the same time, yeah, we don't want to we don't want to get too overexposed where we can't handle the technology Because it's it's it is overwhelming, you know, obviously, you know now that we have a lot more experience. It's not as It's not as overwhelming as it used to be but back then I mean, yeah, it's scared the death out of me You know, like what do I know about this? I don't know anything about it I got to figure it out, but you're invested you've spent the money now You got to go sell it right? The only way to sell it is to make sure that you can actually perform. So Yeah, it's again There's no right or wrong way to do this business. It's just been our approach, you know, and and as much as I think You know people look at what we've done in the last six years has been, you know wild and crazy We've gotten there because we've we've narrowed, you know our exposure lane, you know And just stay in our lane till we're ready and then when we're ready we'll merge right and we'll get in that lane And then we'll own it, right? So Again, just a different different perspective of it You know, and I think sometimes, you know, I see other shops. They go a different route You know, it's the biggest baddest best you can get Good luck, you know, it's not easy. It's not easy man.Â
Luke:Â And and you said six years I mean that is a for what you guys have accomplished during that time. That's a Short amount of time in the scheme of things when you look at other businesses You know what's sitting out there on the floor and what you guys are doing That's a I mean a real accomplishment. A lot of people wish they could do it Having the right approach and maybe having a philosophy in the beginning seems like it's a huge foundation to have to start winning getting little wins getting little wins and then growing from there and Maintaining it and I'm guessing that I've met some of the guys out on the floor and people in the office that that when you're building a company like this and Thinking about your team.Â
Luke:Â We haven't talked about how how you started growing that but was that something you thought of like?
Jordan:Â Hey, anyone that comes to work for us Has got to adopt or have a flexible mindset like this and and really lean in and want to be a part of itÂ
Luke:Â Absolutely you have a culture here that's different in an awesome way you step out on the floor sit in the office talk to people It's a it's a really good energy and it's real. It's not fake.Â
Jordan:Â SureÂ
Luke: Was that something you thought of did that come from things you did in the past with your other businesses with racing? Or is that just part of who you are?Â
Jordan:Â Yeah, I mean obviously it for me. It's a combination of things for sure But in business I think one of the most important things that you can do up front is Determine how big you want to be in the beginning because for me that that dictates the path forward Right if you want to be the biggest and best and you want to have 500 employees and you want to have a million square. Feet someone's got to do it. It's not me That's that's not the route that I wanted to go what I believed in was the culture the technology Making sure that we learned it that we earned it That we didn't we didn't step out of our lane, you know, we're very much a stay the course business You know, we can we can zig and we can zag and we're always watching and we're always paying attention to things That are going on in the industry and where things might be headed but for us it was it's always been about the culture that we've that we built here and That we bring people along with the technology, you know my entire team here Nobody came from the metal industry. Nobody knew anything about it. Everybody's not a single person Everybody's been trained here at our facility. We've never hired anybody with experience. That's just not the route we go so we know how Overwhelming it can be it's scary and you know metalworking has been around for hundreds of years So, you know there there's so much information out there that how is it even possible to dip your toe and start learning about it?Â
Luke:Â Right.Â
Jordan:Â It's one making things is hard. Yeah, it's Yeah, it's not easy. No, it's not at all and so, you know having that having that atmosphere of we're gonna learn it together We're gonna figure this out together You know If you've got the right attitude the willingness to learn the want to come to work and and know that yeah, you know what? I'm gonna say something stupid. I'm not gonna understand something, but there's ten other people here They're probably thinking the same thing. I am so I might as well just ask it and then maybe we can learn together You know again education is such a big part of our culture here and and helping people really feel confident in what they're telling our customers Or how they're operating equipment You know, I just I've always taken the philosophy if I can do it you can do it, right again I didn't I didn't have any expertise in this. I didn't have any background I just had the willingness and the want to learn and move forward and and learn a new skill. And I've been very very fortunate over the years to find other people that want to do that exact same thing Yeah, well if you're the example and then people can see that and go, okay This is I can see the path because Jordan didn't start out knowing this industry didn't grow up in it He came in fresh and look what he's been able to learn on his own doing his own with the right Attitude it's not free obviously and hard work and everything that's a super cool way to do because if you hadn't done that and you're hiring guys people that Don't have any experience. It's a different It's a different feeling where when they have an example of what you've done You know, they get to be inspired and and have a different kind of inspiration for it And I hope that's what it is, you know, not just not just for here but just in life in general You know, everybody has goals and dreams and aspirations and they want to step out on the limb, you know at some point and maybe This is you know, the catalyst that gets them there, you know is that hey, you know what? I work for this really cool company I didn't know anything about it and it taught me how to learn new skills not to be afraid of it not to be afraid to fail You know and and I and I think our you know, our culture here with our with with our group, you know and our team is that No one is afraid to feel like we know we're gonna do silly things We know we're gonna screw things up and you know of course, we've we've gotten a lot better at that over the years right because you you don't make that same mistake twice, but, You know going going back to you know The culture that we created it and knowing how big you want to be The size of our company allows us to really spend that one-on-one time With people and when they're not comfortable or confident in a certain area we can focus some attention there You know, it's not you know, we're not so disconnected from our people that we can't help them grow and learn You know and that that's what's always been so important to me is I I just don't want a company that has 200 people in It I want to know my people. I want to help them. I want to I want to see that Even if they don't stick with us forever That this was a place that elevated them to a level that that they could go get their dream job or they could go work In whatever industry they wanted to work in Based on the confidence that they built here So, you know those factors are involved it is it is very much, you know And I know a lot of companies say this it is it is almost all family that works here, you know And it's friends of friends. We all know each other. We're all interconnected in some form or fashion. Yeah So it is it is far more personal for us in that sense But at the same time you have people that are really willing to fight in the trenches with you every day You know and everybody's fighting the same fight And and you know knowing that we're gonna run lean, you know helps because it's like there's nobody else We can go find five more people, but it doesn't mean they're gonna be good doesn't mean that they're gonna help It doesn't mean that it's gonna make the make the business run smoother.
Luke:Â Well, they're no one's gonna care as muchÂ
Jordan:Â No absolutely not and you know, even even with with my team, you know, I tell them all the time I don't expect you to care as much as I do, but I do expect you to keep up You know, I do expect you to share the passion right you mean something in this company. You're not just a number You're not just another person you have, you know, plenty of skill. You have plenty of responsibility And if you want more, I'll give you more, you know, we've just we don't have a cap here You know if you want to come in and learn everything and be a $50 an hour employee by all means come do it.Â
Luke:Â That's unique.
Jordan:Â You know, it's I It's interesting when you remove the ceiling right because you find out maybe yeah, you find out a lot of things You find out a lot about the people And you know, it's it's good and bad, you know, sometimes you know, there are plenty of people that need constant direction They can't they can't have That amount of freedom it just doesn't work for their personality and we have those guys, you know, it's like yeah They need to be told what to do every hour of the day and they're great at it But if you leave them to their own devices They're gonna wander and they're not gonna be efficient and they're not gonna get you know, they're not gonna learn anything So, you know being able to take those those guys under your wing and say alright, we're gonna learn something today, right? We're gonna learn a new skill. We're gonna try something different. You know what we did yesterday. We don't do that anymore. We do this now right because it's a new challenge. It's a new thing to think about it's not repetitious You know, and I think that's what that's what a lot of our team really likes about our dynamic here is that it is so Fluid we're changing constantly You know, we have our core values. We have our core structure, but as far as like our day goes Yeah, things are gonna change and we need to flow with that We don't know when we pick up the phone. Some guy may need parts in an hour. Can we do it? Sure we can do it What's that how's that gonna affect the rest of the team can we get them on board as well, right? So, yeah, it's it we're always just mixing and shaking things up and it makes for a really really fun dynamic
Luke:Â Well openness seems to be a Common trait in companies that are doing well, so that lines up with what you're talking about. You mentioned something with Not being afraid to ask a question in front of people Without worrying that you're gonna look silly or stupid which isn't easy for anyone sure it has to be the right setting people We all still do it. Oh, yeah, so how come everybody feels? Yeah, no matter what you're like, I'm gonna and then if you call yourself out sometimes it makes it easier I'm guilty of it all the time I have to deal with it every day. I think that's a That's a big sign of a of a good culture if you feel comfortable enough like hey, I'm not worried about Looking silly because I have a legitimate question and I'm gonna get an answer one way or another and if someone doesn't know the answer We're gonna learn it together because that's what this place is. So to not be afraid to Expose yourself and be vulnerable in a in a in a shop environment. That isn't can be an intense environment Is it is a huge thing? And then you just mentioned you keep mentioning education and Learning and skill progression That's what keeps people. I think that's what keeps people around is growth one way or another whether it's growth as a company if you're open and you want to keep Whether you want to be the the biggest in the world or whether you just go Hey, this is the size we want to be but we want to be the best at it. We got to keep growing in the right way That's how companies stick around and that's how it seems like employees stick around as well because they're People want to learn whether you think it I mean we all want to grow it's something and get better at something That's a that's a huge deal and you definitely don't find that everywhere. It's very rareÂ
Jordan: Yeah, I mean everybody has the desire to be challenged right they want they want to see you know obviously everybody has a different personality, but I think the the ability to spend some personal time with people and say hey, I'm not here to Make fun of the things you don't know. I'm here to expose the things you don't know so that I know we're maybe we're Disconnecting with you and what that could be with a customer as well. It doesn't just have to be with our people.Â
Luke: That's it rightÂ
Jordan: Â like but if we can't if we can't have the dialogue if we can't go back and forth on something And just understand that it's coming from a good place This is not coming from a place of you're an idiot. You don't know what you're doing We're the experts just listen to us and we'll get you down the road, right? That's that's never been our approach You know, we're here to help. We're here to educate. We're here to make people feel confident You know going back to to bringing the industry up the more I can help our customers understand What is and isn't manufacturable whether they use me or they use a different company? They're making things easier for everybody. You know, they're they're helping Get better they're educating themselves, which maybe they'll have a friend that needs something and then they go. Oh I bought Fusion 360 Can you tell me can you teach me how to how to do this stuff, you know? But yeah, you know here here in our with our team, you know, everybody's got a voice Everybody has the ability to step up say something You know, whether it's the right time the wrong time It doesn't matter if somebody's if we're not coming across clear about what the goal is, you know And and what we're expecting from our people Yeah, raise your hand say something and and and don't be afraid that you're gonna get ridiculed because of it. We're here, too. We're not perfect where we don't know everything.
I don't have all the answers But what I do need to know is where are we disconnecting? What what don't you understand about the process or how you're gonna move about your day? That helps you be efficient and helps the business move forward Yeah, and it's not easy because it's a lot of like little personal conversations that you have to have all day every day But it also gives everybody that opportunity to say something right whether it's in a group not in a group You know and and express themselves the way that they feel comfortable You know, so yeah the the culture and the and the core Values that I think you you uphold as a business owner in your own business Is so critical it's such a key thing to know what you want to represent how you want to represent your people and How you want to be represented? And it starts at the top absolutely, you know, and that's got to trickle down to your people to where they understand what's expected of them and What they have the privilege to be able to do, you know again just say hey, I don't feel comfortable with this Okay, cool. No problem. We'll get somebody who does Not a problem, right like especially when we're learning, you know at new machines new equipment There's there's times where we have jobs that are really high-pressure jobs, and I'll I won't even put that pressure on my guys I'll say you know what I got this. I don't even want you to because if it goes wrong if it goes south You're gonna think about it all day.Â
Luke:Â Oh, yeah, I'm gonna move on at least you know I Still have nightmares.
Jordan:Â Yeah The high-pressure jobs are tough or like when you're you know, when you're when you're really at the extremes of the equipment like yeah It's not fun. It is stress to the max, but I would rather wear that burden Than my people wear that burden, you know, because again sometimes it goes great It's easy and we can use it as an educational moment and and say hey this is what you should be looking for this is how I know this is gonna work or We need to stop now because this is not gonna get any better than where we're at, you know And we've got it. We've got to rethink this and here's why here's the moment in time when I saw something that I go This isn't gonna work. So we got to stop we got to abort We got to figure out a new approach to this. We got to change it and then we'll revisit it And those are just real-life situations that are happening every day in these shops, you know, we're taking on work We don't make any of our own product. So we're taking on work of things that yeah, the manufacturing process is questionable You know, we think we can get there the math says we can get there or you just know from experience The machine is gonna tell me no, but I know this is possible Right, and so we're gonna have to work through that We're gonna have to create a special circumstance to to go out there and and and make sure that that part gets manufactured the right wayÂ
Luke:Â Yeah, that's a the machine telling, you know, and you've been able to do something that That's you mentioned that comes with experience. I mean everybody said everybody in shops has had Scenarios like that and whether it's called lying to the machine or not That's real. But if you don't the experience then yeah, that can be some sketchy moments and a lot of people have been there too And it's uh, yeah there It gets your heart going.Â
Jordan:Â Yeah, it's it's you know It's a daily occurrence for us and it's it's always interesting to how we approach those, you know, and I do try to rally my team as much as possible to be around in those moments of I need you to understand why this is such high stress and I need you to understand that we're pushing outside of our boundaries here you know we're in the gray area now and this can go well it can go bad but regardless we all need to learn something from this right because it's if you don't think that it's gonna happen again or come up again it is you know and that's the problem when you factor parts that are like in that gray area is that then people want to keep pushing that gray area and then it gets even at some point you know you have to you have to call timeout on them and say listen just because you can doesn't mean you should right yeah we got a backup here yeah I just I don't think this is gonna work the way you think this is gonna work it's cool that you.
Luke:Â You've mentioned a few times but that you take scenarios like that which can be they can be exciting and scary at the same time but to rally like you just mentioned to rally the team to use it one way or another as an education is you benefit from it either way either outcome right I mean despite maybe something horrific happening in a scenario which does happen out there but despite that happening and if you have the team rally you're probably avoiding that that's cool because no matter what everyone's gonna gain something right whether it's we're not doing this or this worked out really well or hey we're almost there let's put our heads together and see what the better path forward is that's a great way to do it because a lot of times it seems like I could be wrong but here let's give this project to these two guys over here and let them chew on it for however long and if they say we can do we can do if they say we can't do it then we can't do it don't waste any more time on it there's a lot of that and probably a lot of lost opportunity but it's you gotta put yourself out there and it's scary and people don't like just like they don't want to raise their hand because they've had you're helping people recover from bad teachers and bad coaches they don't want to do that either so that's a it's a going back to the culture thing that's that's an awesome place to be if you're in that environment changes everything yeahÂ
Jordan:Â And look you know my job as a leader is to empower my people right you know I can't be the only person that possesses that knowledge right so the only way to do that is in real-life scenarios you know I I can I can set up failures all day long on machines if that's what we wanted to do but that's not the point the point is is that there's a right answer right and that is whether the part was manufacturable and it whether it was correct and we need to know the difference between a manufacturable part and not and if we have the opportunity to learn at what point it's either going well or bad then now that empowers them to make some of those decisions because even though it may not be the exact same scenario they're gonna look for those fine details of okay that's the point that at that moment this is not working so instead of continuing to just press the button and keep going and make this a disaster I got to stop and say something but I'm gonna stop and say something and not worry about somebody ripping my head off because the machines not running I'm bringing up a legitimate issue hey when this happened this was like X customers part right and I I can already wrap my head around what's going on before I even get to the machine you know and see what's happening you know if they have those references in their brain it helps describe what's going on you know and and helps me a lot more with the clarity as to how can I better help you get those parts off this machine you know whether it's a reprogram or a different sequence or whatever you know that the goal is is to is to continue to help the team as much as I can and not just me our team is helping our team you know we've got we've got five full-time designers here including myself and Justin Wray who's my Operations Manager I mean we are involved every day yeah you know if you're sending two parts to us it's most likely I programmed your two parts so if they're right great if they're wrong somebody else program I was training at that time but yeah no we're we're so we're so involved in our business every day and I think that's one of the one of the things that it really separates us from from other businesses or at least the cliche of metal fabricating you know is that the owners and the upper management is usually so disconnected from the floor that they don't know why they bought a certain piece of equipment they don't know why they hired this guy they don't know who's running something properly who's running something improperly they're just kind of winging it and they're looking at the numbers going okay well this machine wasn't running why you know whereas for us I mean we're we're programming parts we're running machines we we don't have collectively a piece of equipment a piece of software anything in this business that we don't use every day or touch every day as upper management or owners we are that connected with what's going on and that's a part of us running so lean you know as I'm not sitting in my office going oh I hope somebody asked me to do something today right no we're here at 6 a.m. we're programming parts we're getting the machines going we're getting you know we are in it we love manufacturing we absolutely love this process we love what our day brings to us yeah it has its ups and downs it's not always you know rainbows and roses but you know we we try to make the best of it you know and knowing that we're all going through it together helps right because we're not we're not disconnected from each other of like oh yeah they're gonna have a terrible day out there and we're gonna sit in here and drink coffee and hang out like no we are we are just a much you know just as much a part of that as they are and you know when you have that culture that's so tight it just it brings a whole nother level of confidence you know with our team you know they just the way that the way that I've seen our people grow in this company is unlike any other business I've ever I've ever been a part of you know that just people come in they're quiet at first you know and then three months later six months later that you would think that they've been doing this for 20 years you know they just get over that hurdle of I can do this and and I can be confident about it and whether that's running a piece of equipment or in the sales department or you know just buying material for our company whatever it is you know whatever area and it's funny because everybody they come in they do that and then they're like I want more I want to learn a little bit more give me something else and that's cool because in most businesses people are just status quo right just put me in my cubicle let me do my thing every day don't bother me if I get a promotion great if I get a raise great but you know there's there's I don't find that there's that that want and desire for people to to ask for more and we see that constantly here in our culture so that I'm really appreciative of because I know that what we're doing and what we're what we're you know the the culture that we built is really sinking in and it's unlike any other environment that I've ever worked for so yeah it's it's fun yeahÂ
Luke:Â It's it's always it's been fun to come here and see it firsthand it's funny because you've got constraints on one hand that help with when you're getting new equipment and mastering that and then with your people you've given an open ceiling and no constraints to hey you can take this as far as you want it's up to you those two things mixed together is pretty powerful and it's yes it's very coolÂ
Jordan:Â Yeah it's a unique it's a unique combination you know when when I built the business I built the business I always wanted to work for and I always felt like yeah I was I was just felt like you know either either you had everything at your disposal and you didn't know how to use it and there was nobody there to teach you or you were so confined that there was no room for growth and then what's the point of being there right because you just feel like another number you feel like tomorrow I could be replaced and here we've just we found this way of you know developing our culture of you can learn you know there are ceilings or sorry there are ceilings that have been removed and then there's you know there are some constraints and the constraints are just to make sure that we're as good at that process as we say we are oh yeah you know and then once we've earned it then we will progress forward and then we got to do the same thing over again yeah you know you know for us you know I've told you this the last time you're here you know we're never gonna offer at all you know I don't want to be a company that gets so overextended on services that we start to become mediocre right because you just can't possibly master them you can't keep track of them you can't you can't follow your people throughout the day you know enough and you just don't have enough time just in general to devote to that and you know so for us it's always been you know let's let's again those constraints let's just bring it down a little bit and instead of being mediocre at ten things let's be really good at five or six things and that'll be our lane and if down the road we feel like it's time to explore a new technology let's let's get after it but we're so confident in what we're doing here that it makes that easier I can take a group of people it's not it's not a single person trying to go learn something I can take a group of people that are interested and say hey this is this is the future for us who wants to learn it who wants to go for it.
Luke:Â YeahÂ
Jordan:Â You know and and take a team of people to that department and go okay now instead of just having one expert I got five guys that are interested in doing this between those five we should be able to find one or two that can really focus here and then another three that can survive that can help you know really well and do their you know run another machine so yeah that that that side of things is always been an interesting thing to navigate you know in this business when do you add equipment when you'd not add equipment how many services do you offerÂ
Luke:Â I was gonna ask you that because you've got now so once you got into this building you had your original tube laser.
Jordan:Â mm-hmmÂ
Luke:Â the you had your first you said 1040Â
Jordan: yep flat
Luke:Â you had the smaller electricÂ
Jordan:Â yes 7036Â
Luke:Â And now what's out there's there's much more machines out there now yes yeah so you're talking about staying but you've got a lot of equipment but it's sure within the ecosystem of what you guys do you haven't you're not all of a sudden doing five axis milling.
Jordan:Â No no no it's it's been redundancy right like we we you know we're so adamant on our timelines and being able to keep low timelines for our customers fast turnarounds you know reasonable pricing that that people feel like they're getting the value for what we're doing but at the same time I can't I can't afford to let them down so you know when we moved into this building we brought in another tube laser brought in the 3000 tube laser so again smaller machine than what we had smaller power smaller package but very very efficient machine for what we were doing and especially in the marketplace that we kind of hold so we brought that machine in we brought in the bigger press break the 5170 with the ToolmasterÂ
Luke:Â That's an impressiveÂ
Jordan:Â Yeah that's one of my one of my favorite pieces of equipment out there and then we started once we got into all the flat bend then we started offering some you know post-process services we brought in the RQ the edge breaker 6000 and then after that we brought in the true laser center 7030 which is an absolute monster of a machine and then our most recent purchase were our two tumblers yeah so we brought the tumblers in to help with small parts and and that's been that's been awesome I mean we're just we're always trying to find a way to make sure that we're supporting the processes that we offer without going well we left this part out because we wanted to buy this piece of equipment over here you know we can't do that so we're trying to make sure that we develop that that support system for everything that we're doing within the shopÂ
Luke:Â Yeah those all the stuff you mentioned is all supporting kind of the original idea those tumblers that I came to see the last time are awesomeÂ
Jordan:Â yeah yeah, That's something a lot of shops start to adopt because it's just a great used to see a more in machine in the machining world right I think you'll start to see them more than fab shops I you guys are the first ones that I've seen with that particular style yeah awesome machines
Jordan:Â Yeah so well yeah the the Spaleck Industries the the tumblers that we have you know they're dry tumblers which are a lot different than what you see usually got to have water yeah they're not they're not vibratory they are true tumblers but in their design you know it if they're quiet they're large we got we got the Diablo XL so that we actually do out there yeah we do lots of parts high-capacity we can even do some tubing parts in there which has been nice but yeah I mean just just really trying to be as well rounded as we can in the sense of these are the services we offer we have these other items to support those services I mean we do you know we have hardware you know we do the the PEMS you know that helps too you know it's just little things little pieces of equipment that really support our workflow and our system here that we can just add a little bit more and maybe not such a large footprint you know the obviously the you know the big machines you got to be smart about where you're placing them and yeah and and there's only so much room for those so you want to make sure that when you're when you're adding equipment that if it if it does have a small footprint that it has a big impact yeah you know on your business side because in most cases they're significantly cheaper obviously than the than the big lasers but they can have a huge financial benefit to your company and to your customers so you know we're always we're always looking at new new things to try to add and what's next and and how and does it make sense right are people gonna come along with it and use that service or we just buying a paperweight you know that nobody's gonna use so along with that you know good you got to educate customers you got it got to help them understand what they're what they're getting you know and so that that brings a whole new battle but again that dynamic inside the shop in the sales office of learning new equipment learning how to sell it learning how to get people to understand it you know those are all battles that we have to fight because there's no there's no script that says if you buy this laser then say these words and people will yeah that's not true by any meansÂ
Luke:Â Yeah well maybe is a way to start finishing it up the hope with this whole thing one of the hopes is that it exposes other people that aren't in the industry you're like one of the best examples even though you were racing so you're getting exposure to it but if you if there's somebody that just started thinking about probably younger person the fabrication industry manufacturing what you know if if any not to ask for advice or I guess some knowledge that you've gained along the way you know would you give to them to start looking into it more what avenues you know what places to go people to talk to I mean there's a there now so it's the exposure is big but if I guess if it was you starting out again where would you look or what would you thinkÂ
Jordan:Â Oh man you know it's such a different time frame within a short period of time yeah I know yeah what the stuff that's changed you know and the access that you have to people and and quote-unquote experts because there's there's a lot of the knowledge base is gigantic now you know and again everybody has their way of doing it and it's not a right way or a wrong way it's just what they prefer or what works in their atmosphere you know and I do try to be as accessible as I can for people that are starting out I do spend a tremendous amount of time helping and mentoring some of these some of these guys that are either branching out on their own or they're thinking about getting a new piece of equipment maybe they already own a shop but they're ready to purchase their first big laser you know maybe they just have a you know a you know just a regular flatbed or you know they've got you know just really basic equipment but they're like I'm ready to make that next step you know and buy a big piece of equipment you know what would you look for how would you negotiate that or you know what are the things that I should look for you know there was none of that other than just going direct to the manufacturer which you're gonna get a lot of truths and you're gonna get a lot of things that are not correct or not in your benefitÂ
Luke:Â sure in those cases how do you know?
Jordan:Â yeah you don't you just have to take their word for it so you know for me the one thing that I could say definitely is don't be afraid to ask questions to people right you know we we we get messages constantly you know through even for simple stuff like hey you know I'm having an issue getting this you know can you can you show me how you would get this angle or this bend or doing you know whatever whatever it is that somebody's struggling with all the way up to you know again I'm stepping out on my own or I just bought a business a pre-existing business and we're struggling you know what what can I do to try to drum up some business you know the knowing going back to some of my core values of knowing how big you be knowing what you know your values are as a as a business owner what do you want to represent how do you want your business represented how do you want your people representing you and you know sticking with that that core group of values I think is huge you know but yeah asking questions there's so many good people there's bad people that are wrong knowledge you're really bad I mean it goes hand in hand but there are a lot of companies out there like including myself that are willing to help you know I'm willing to answer your questions I'm willing to pick up the phone and call you and just have a conversation maybe that gets you down the road maybe that maybe that gives you the confidence to go buy that machine maybe it maybe you realize man that's not for me you know I don't I don't know what to do you know there there's so many different avenues to go about this business you know I I always say that you know if I had to go back in time and start this business againÂ
Luke:Â yeahÂ
Jordan:Â I don't know that I would make the right decision at the right time or the same decision I don't know that I could get back here you know what I'm saying yes it would be successful but it would not look anything like this I guarantee it you know not in the world we live in not in the not in the exposure level that we have now the access to people you know I would I would probably be in a completely different realm I don't know what that would look like but I can probably guarantee you wouldn't if the shop would not look the same yeah you know just based on the information that I possess today that I didn't have you know six years ago or eight years agoÂ
Luke:Â It's always the caseÂ
Jordan:Â Yeah of course you know and you would think that you would think that a business like this that that has has grown so fast that the path was very clear and it just isn't it's not at all it's hard it's difficult it's it's it's draining I mean it's exhausting you know always trying to figure out what the future holds trying to be correct when you buy millions of dollars worth of equipment it's it's not easy but yeah you know you know that you and I were touching on it before we started you know that the consistency consistency and whatever you're doing right if you're if you're if you're posting on social media and that's how you're gonna grow your company or your brand post every day right it doesn't have to be anything spectacular just be in the limelight keep yourself active right and build those good you know those good values of representing your brand as much as you can you know same thing get up get to work right like create that structure that you know again I'm I'm here at 6 a.m. I could come in anytime I want 6 a.m. every day right cuz that's when my business starts that's when I want to be involved right from the get-go you know and then and then educate yourself you know we don't we don't walk in here any day thinking that we're an industry expert we know the badge we wear but we're figuring it out you know there's a lot of things that we have to just figure out on the fly we don't know what we don't know and the only way to do it is to try we have some very calculated approaches to that because of experience but at the end of the day until you cut the part bend the part or whatever it needs you just don't know what the answer is gonna be right so not being afraid to to try things go out on a limb push the limits educate yourself learn your equipment learn your skills and earn it you know. I see a lot of companies now that that are getting involved that they just immediately think that because I possess the same or similar equipment that I'm on your level and that's not the reality you didn't earn it yet right you've got it you got to earn your stripes you've got to build a reputation you've got to build a client base you've got to do all these things meanwhile there's a lot of companies out there like mine that are already representing these customers right and they're really hard to get back because we're representing them so well and they're happy with the service there's plenty of there's plenty of market out there for everybody you know to play in but you got to bring something special to the table you got to be just a little bit different so what is that you know what can you bring you know and and that takes that little personal touch that creates that character of your business that I can't I can't tell you what that is you know you have to figure that out and I think that's the fun part about business is whatÂ
Luke:Â Totally.
Jordan:Â What do you represent right like how are you going to make your business that's doing the same thing that 10,000 other companies are doing unique right what's gonna what's gonna make them you know want to use you and I think for us you know it was access it was honesty transparency you know the the communication levels that we bring you know that we're not we're not for everybody you know the guys that the guys that want to use online services which are great those typically aren't our customer base because we are offering design services were trying to help their designs were trying to fix their designs were trying to make sure that it's manufacturable in order to do that we have to have dialogue if you upload a part and then you get a wrong answer or that it doesn't work maybe you go away maybe you say something I don't know we just force everybody to communicate with us and we like to build that that that communication level and the ability to build that relationship long term so you know starting in this in this industry today it's not easy I could tell you that it's not easy but it's totally doable you know I don't I don't think anybody should shy away from it you know by any means obviously the the expense of the equipment I think factors out a lot of people just because it is on a level that is extremely scary you know millions of dollars in equipment at we're talking about at the highest level right the lowest level there's obviously entry-level equipment which is fine there's an absolute place for that equipment in this market you know and especially for people to get their feet wet and learn totally you know again if I was doing this all over again I don't know that my shop would look the same you know I just took a different approach because at that time there was there weren't as many options right so it was kind of a go big or go home deal when we started. So, once we started going down that path, it was hard to change.Â
Luke:Â Sure, yeah, yeah, once you get a taste of that. There's also, if you're somebody, I guess if you were a person working inside of a shop that wanted to start their own thing, there's companies like you guys out there that, hey, maybe I can't afford the equipment yet, but I've got resources. You know, I could live in the middle of the country, I could live wherever. There's multiple sources out there that I can use in the meantime to start growing my business. You know, maybe I can weld really well, and I can have these things cut, bent, kitted up, whatever, that's my product or it's my customers, but I'm the in-between and I weld it and I get it out to them. Those seem to be, maybe there's options there for guys that they don't have to buy the equipment yet for some companies, but yeah, it's a tough industry.
Jordan:Â Yeah, and look, we try to support those guys too. We built this business to help other small businesses. Again, we don't make our own product yet. We don't make anything that we manufacture and sell as a mainstream product. We make a lot of fun stuff, but that's not where we make our money. But yeah, our goal is to help as many of those companies grow, and then they get to that pivotal point of maybe they wanna buy their own equipment, which is always nice. I mean, I get it. You always wanna own something and say, hey, you know what, I don't have to outsource this anymore, but sometimes it's not the best business strategy. The best business strategy is to invest in the equipment that we don't have. Instead of investing in a flat laser that you can find in a lot of different places, invest in robotic welders and co-bots and all these things that we don't do that you can do really well and master that technology and outsource your parts, right? So there's a lot of different ways to look at it and a lot of different approaches, and I always enjoy having those conversations with business owners about what their next move is or where they wanna go or do, because it's interesting. You get an insight into what they're thinking, and it's always interesting to hear where their mindset is and what they think the future of their company holds.
Luke:Â What do you think the future of your company holds at this point? That might be another hour long conversation for another time.Â
Jordan:Â Yeah, I mean, I can sum it up, but yeah, we're gonna continue down our path of growth and figure out what makes sense for us long-term. Equipment-wise, we're always looking to bring in new services. We're exploring some new services right now that we're gonna be bringing in shortly that we're gonna just experiment with for a little while. So we're actually gonna bring in some welding. We're bringing in a TrueArc Weld 1000Luke: Very cool.Â
Jordan:Â So a cobot welding situation, which we've never really thought about bringing into our atmosphere. We definitely have a need for it, but we have to see if that makes sense for our workflow. Obviously, I'd like some bigger lasers and some other things to put me in a different marketplace, really. But for the most part, I mean, we've had a very steady growth pattern over the last six years. We've never stopped growing customer base and equipment. This is the first year as a business that we haven't purchased a large piece of equipment, and a lot of that's just due to- Yeah, I know. It's crazy. I mean, most people are paying off their first machine by this point and thinking about getting their second one, and we have six. So yeah, right now, where we're at is figuring out, we have very limited floor space, which we still have a lot, and we didn't cramp these machines by any means. We could absolutely move them around, move them closer, and gain even more. So that's really our strategy, is just figuring out what does the future look like machine-wise, big machine-wise? What our business looks like for second shift, or automation, or things that keep us running through the night. That was the big reason why we bought the True Laser Center 7030, is to have that overnight production without having a person here. But yeah, always looking at efficiencies and where we think we're falling short, or that we can or can't do something. And that could be as simple as just doing tapping. Maybe we've just all of a sudden, we're just getting request after request for tapping, but then... We talked about that last time. Or we get requests for a tube that's out of our capacity. We're always looking at the frequency and the rate that that stuff is happening, and does it make sense to bring in a piece of equipment to deal with that? And so we're kind of just in this monitoring stage of what we're seeing.
Luke:Â That's cool. It's a good place to be.Â
Jordan:Â Well, it's a great place to be, but also too, we've been so consistent for so many years that we don't know sometimes if it's truly people just understanding what's within our capacity and not asking, or are we missing it because we don't offer it? So people just don't even... They know, hey, these guys don't do any better than this.Â
Luke:Â They know you so well.Â
Jordan:Â Yeah, exactly. And then so then we actually don't know how much of that business is. We do get asked from time to time for referrals, and hey, I know you can't cut this, but who would you use? And that's always tough. We do have some partners that we rely on, that we built relationships with that are extremely important for us, that we know they do business like we do business. We can trust them that even though it's not being manufactured in our shop, we know it's gonna be manufactured to our level.Â
Luke:Â If you put your name on it, even as a referral, it can go sour if you don't have the right partners. Yeah. 100%.Â
Jordan:Â And those are tough.Â
Luke:Â Oh, yeah, because you say it, but then you are out of it. It's not up to you at that point. You can't, you know. Yeah. I guess kind of can manage it, but yeah.Â
Jordan:Â Yeah, it's not easy. It's not easy, and of course, you wanna spread the access of work around. People are asking us because they need it. Sure. At the end of the day, if we can link them to a trusted source, hopefully, you know, they keep going with us and say, listen, yeah, I'm not looking to jump ship here. I just needed this material cut, and everything else is still gonna come through you. But you have the ability to kind of still control the workflow a little bit and make sure that that customer's always taken care of, even if that service isn't being done within your shop. But you could say that along with welding, powder coating, you know, any type of finishing. We're not doing that here internally. We have trusted partners that we use to do that. And so we're always transparent with our customers of, hey, we can connect the dots here. It's just not being done by us. These are people that we trust. We would put our name on. But at the end of the day, your product is going to leave here. It's gonna get whatever service that is, and then it's gonna come back. And that's not something we do a lot of. I'd say it's probably 10% of our overall workflow. So very little in the grand scheme of things. But yeah, absolutely. If you need a finished product, we'll make a finished product. It's just not what our bread and butter is. You know, we found this market of just creating high quality parts for a great price and being able to do it really quickly and getting them to you anywhere in the country. And that's really what our customers know us for. But at the end of the day, you get new customers that don't understand that and they want a finished product. And we say, yeah, absolutely, we'll make it happen. So yeah, it's, you know, the expansion for the company. We'll see, you know, it's up in the air right now. It's been up in the air for a while. We have some pretty good ideas of where we're going, but, you know, we just, we have to just make sure we're all clear on it. And, you know, again, I always like to bring my team in on it as well. You know, I don't talk to every customer. I don't have those interactions. So, you know, we do have regular meetings of like, what are we seeing? Or what are we asking? You know, what are customers asking for that we don't offer? You know, and try to see, again, if it makes sense at all. You know, what's the rate? How often? What's the part count? Like, are we even going to get there financially? Does it make sense financially? Because anytime you're going outside of what capacity we already have, it's typically a significant jump in money. So that payoff there has got to be a guarantee.Â
Luke:Â Yeah, it's got to be a guarantee. Otherwise it's really hard to say, hey, I want to buy a bigger, badder machine. And then run the same type of material that we're running through machines that cost significantly less. So, yeah, it's a juggle.Â
Luke:Â Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, cool, man. It's been fun to watch you guys. The time that I've been exposed to you, to see what you've done. It's been awesome. And it's going to continue to be rad to watch the growth. I think it's probably a good place to end it for now. Maybe do another one in the future. And you've got some rad stuff out there that I'd like to go look at if you're cool with it.Â
Jordan:Â Yeah, yeah, let's go walk the shop and go see what we got.Â
Luke:Â Right on. Thanks, Jordan. Appreciate it, brother.Â
Jordan:Â Awesome, thanks, man.
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